As requested by TJ members in the recent months, additional written submissions expressing the desire to change our church’s name or to retain it were collected in June. This opportunity was shared weekly with our members to offer maximum response by the June 19th deadline. Further research into factual accounts of Jefferson’s life through recommended reading lists, historical speaker presentations and the current unrest over racial inequities has encouraged some members to voice their viewpoints on the subject.
Pro (for name change) or Con (against name change)?
Robert Schulz – Pro: Reverend David Bumbaugh has been a great correspondent ever since his appearance at TJUC years ago with his minister wife, Beverley. I asked his view about the name change and his compelling, thoughtful reply changed my opinion from “against” to “for” change. I agree with his viewpoint that churches should not be named after people.
Audrey Schulz – Pro: Reading about Jefferson’s exploitation of black people and his profiting from them led me to think we should drop his name. I do realize he was a very special man, but under today’s circumstances having his name on the church is painful.
Tish Moore – Pro: When I visited Monticello 20 years ago, I noticed that Jefferson had a tunnel built from his slave quarters to his house so that visitors to Monticello wouldn’t see slaves walking back and forth into the house. His dining room had a “dumb waiter” in a wall panel. He could serve food and drink prepared by slaves in the kitchen without a slave being in the room with his guests. He always hired just the right people to keep everyone in line (including the boys in his nail factory).
Throughout his life, he was a verbal opponent of slavery, yet he owned 600 slaves. He must have been embarrassed with himself.
As a woman, I resent his sexualizing Sally Hemings, his daughter’s teen-aged nanny. He dragged his heals but eventually freed all the children he had with her. After a 38-year relationship, though, he died without freeing HER. Bad sport!
Yes, I’m for a name change. Words matter.
Debbie Horvay – Pro: Jefferson was a political figure (government) not a spiritual figure
Jean Koehler – Pro: I was born and raised a Virginian in a rural, racist town. Not only did I get plenty of Virginia history in my school curriculum, I had class and personal trips to Monticello, Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia home, the VA state capital and the nation’s capital. And I graduated from the same college as Jefferson- William and Mary, and attended graduate school at the university he founded- The University of Virginia. So, I had many sources of input about all the important contributions that Jefferson made to our nation’s beginnings. But as I have been recently enlightened with the dark side of his history that I was never taught in school, I have seen Jefferson in a more complex light. A turning point for me came when a historian stated that Jefferson’s public statement “all men are created equal” was really only meant for white landowning men. The fact that some other leaders of his time chose not to have slaves, or got rid of their slaves, helped me to understand that he was not “just a man of his times” but one who needed his slaves to get him out of debt. Even when he inherited money to free his slaves, he could not give up the income and violated the will of the deceased donor. And in the era of the “Me, Too” movement who could support a man making a concubine of his slave and then enslaving their children- his own biological children! I could go on….
So even though I love this church dearly and have been a member for over 4 decades, I cannot in good conscience support keeping its name. It is not about marketing for me, not about getting more members, but about integrity. Our church has always stood for social justice, and Jefferson’s name no longer embodies that stance to me. I will still be grateful for all of the contributions Jefferson made to our country, and I don’t care if our local government institutions keep his name, but I just don’t think it is appropriate to honor his name on the door of a religious institution that is based on freedom and justice for all. I will continue to be a member of this church no matter how the congregation votes, for the Thomas Jefferson name doesn’t change our good works toward justice, the friendships, the fun, the support we give and receive, nor the moral guidance that we get in this church now. Jean Koehler
Gary V Guss – Pro: Time to fix this! Maybe this time not to use a person’s name.
Linda Guss – Pro: Pro change, would be nice to keep the TJ initials if possible, for continuity.
Rus Funk – Pro: Thomas Jefferson was not a Unitarian nor did he have any connection to this region. In addition, his unrepentant history of enslaving people is contrary to UU principles and values.
Miren Asumendi – Pro: Unitarian stands for Unity to me. Respect and love for All. The name Thomas Jefferson alienates some human beings which is contrary to what our Unitarian Church stands for. TJ could stand for Truth and Justice or some other words that indicate we are FOR Everyone.
Ellen Ballard – Pro: This is the time to take a stand to be progressive, our country is divided, we should be on the correct and just side of this issue.
Tish Moore – Pro: He used men, women, and children of another race for pleasure and profit.
Charles Moore – Pro: It’s time to move forward.
Debby Thompson – Pro: The fact that he was a slave owner and it is documented that he abused his slaves and that these were people of color is abhorrent to me.
Jennifer Reid – Pro: Since first coming to TJ several years ago (how many? I can’t remember) I have had a difficult time “swallowing” the fact that I attend a church named Thomas Jefferson. I has always been cringe-worthy to me and I have found it difficult telling people the name of my church. As I have continued to learn about racism, white fragility, and antiracism I realize the microaggression that is tucked into the statement of our church name, especially when talking to a BIPOC (Black/ Indigenous/ person of color). When we discuss important people in history we should not put these historical figures on a literal or figurative pedestal or altar. We may acknowledge a murderer’s tact and method, but we would not honor the number of people they murdered, even if there were only one victim. The same is true here, we can acknowledge Thomas Jefferson’s successes and accomplishments without holding him to a special standard or putting him in a glorious light. Thomas Jefferson’s lifestyle, enslaving and breeding humans for profit, runs completely contrary to Unitarian Universalists principles. The name should be changed as a form of reparation to those he tortured, since there is no such thing as a “good” slave holder, and Thomas Jefferson was not a “good” slave holder. In recent months, after helping to establish CUUPS at TJ, I have felt the need to promote CUUPS in an alternative way, such as TJ Unitarian Church or TJ CUUPS. This speaks volumes to the meaning and feeling behind a name. Words matter.
Liz Baber – Pro: Thomas Jefferson has taken on another connotation.
Neisja Yenawine – Pro: We must stay current in these troubling times.
Lesley Henney – Pro: As chairperson of the church’s Social Justice Committee, one of the reasons I am motivated to provide leadership for ways in which congregants can take actions toward justice, is because of the positive responses and participation such projects receive from our congregants. So many of my fellow congregants donate money and time to causes the church is aligned with, and do their best to educate themselves on relevant issues.
One of the ways we stand up for justice is to provide social witness, which is one of the 5 areas of social justice action that creates successful movement toward achieving justice. We provide witness when we make our convictions known publicly by word or action. Examples include posting our Black Lives Matter sign at our church entrance on Brownsboro Rd, wearing our “yellow shirts” to march together in the Pride Parade, or attend Climate Strike protests. We participate in these things to show we are living our UU values by supporting the causes.
An irony I am no longer comfortable with is displaying our Black Lives Matter sign next to our Thomas Jefferson Unitarian Church marquee. Retaining Jefferson’s name is providing witness that we endorse the whole man, the positive and the very bad. On the other hand, I feel that the intentional act of the removal of Jefferson’s name from our church will serve as a statement of witness in support of Black Lives Matter. Then, I will no longer feel the irony, but the pride of being a member of such a congregation that was willing to confront the past and move courageously to the future.
As chairperson of the SJC, I personally am finding it more and more difficult to put pen to paper (or type the keys out on my laptop) to write the words Thomas Jefferson when corresponding with our charitable organizational partners or signing onto a social justice movement on behalf of the Thomas Jefferson Unitarian Church. I know TJUC’s reputation for being a justice partner is strong in Louisville, but renaming it will make it even stronger.
Removal of Jefferson’s name allows more space for black people to continue to speak their truth and for us to then listen, because keeping the name creates yet another painful reminder of the violence and injustice of slavery and other harms of white supremacy.
I believe the story of the discernment process our church goes thru to remove Jefferson’s name will contribute to the myriad of ways our society can eliminate systemic racism.
Jackie Thomas – Pro: Dear Fellowship Members,
Prior to my sessions with Reverend Kathy regarding. ‘ White Fragility,’ I must admit, to my great dismay, that I had never paid the attention necessary to understanding the true dilemma of African Americans and my part in participating in this systemic plague in the United States. My eyes are beginning to open and much more development into this subject is essential on my part to participate in lessening this issue rather than randomly being part of the problem of racism.
This brings me to my Pro opinion regarding the name change away from Thomas Jefferson. I know a bit about this man, his history regarding slavery, and that he has fathered children with one of his slaves. This message rings so loud in my ears now that I feel that PRO can be my only choice. These words from the TJUU Covenant reinforce my decision. “We have chosen to make a community where we support each other, in tolerance and love as we explore questions of belief, spirit and value, and discover what unites us in service and concern.” I do NOT want to give a message to our African American brothers and sisters that we still hold fast to the name of one of our white forefathers who supported slavery.
Respectfully submitted,
Jackie Thomas
Ellen Sisti Wade – Pro: Pro-viewpoint confirmed by Sunday service presenter, Dr. Jane Calvert- Colonial History and the Founding Era. February 23, 2020 (anyone wishing to hear the complete audio version must contact the office. Dr. Calvert wishes to share it only with our TJ members- not the public.)
In reviewing the audio recording of our guest speaker, I am called to respond most emphatically that the name of our church must NOT continue to be Thomas Jefferson Unitarian Church.
Dr. Calvert, Associate Professor of History, University of Kentucky, is a specialist on Founder John Dickinson, an early abolitionist, and is knowledgeable about Jefferson and other founders. Dr. Calvert was brought to our church to offer an impartial and historical context of Thomas Jefferson in relationship to slavery. I believe that many people in our congregation thought that calls for a name change were rash and overblown, and that Jefferson’s historical tribute should nullify any personal moral failures. After all, “…didn’t all wealthy land owners own slaves?”
After reviewing Dr. Jane Calvert’s presentation, I am more convinced through her factual and unbiased account of his personal life in context with his achievements, that Jefferson has no place in our church name specifically considering our 7 Principles that guide our moral convictions.
Dr. Calvert opens with acknowledging that the decision whether to change the name is difficult. Unlike the confederate statues that have no place in our public squares, Thomas Jefferson, contributed greatly to our country. The traditional historical view that we grew up with tells the story about Jefferson’s achievements. Contemporary historians now feel compelled to include the private and personal characteristics, and this is what Calvert set out to do.
While Jefferson believed “…all men created equal”, he never meant to include the black race. He believed blacks and whites were practically different species. Dr. Calvert states that Jefferson’s belief was “unvarnished, unapologetic racism.” Jefferson was obsessed with miscegenation. Sexual interaction of the races was horrifying to him. “Black men’s own judgment in favor of the whites is declared by their preference of them as uniformly as the preference of the orangutan for the black women over those of his own species.” …their inferiority is not an affect merely of their condition in life; it is inherent.”
Didn’t Jefferson advocate for abolition? He saw abolition possible only if blacks could be removed from the colonies or states. “If a white female bore a child by a mulatto or black, within the first year, they would need to be removed from Virginia.” Of course, he bore six children (thru rape) of his daughter’s slave, Sally Hemings, while living in France. As a promise to her, he freed his six children before he died; however, this was only a few of the 700 slaves that he abusively managed during his lifetime.
Yes, Jefferson was a product of his culture he lived in, but his inhuman regard for the black person was abhorrent to his peers in his lifetime. Our white culture brings history with us into our lives today, and YES, HISTORY MATTERS.
Sheila Ward – Pro: When I got married, I did not change my name. So, I am not taking this lightly. I feel very strongly that we cannot hold on to Thomas Jefferson as the name of our church. Since I read the book, Master of the Mountain, Thomas Jefferson and His Slaves by Henry Wienckek, I am now feeling even more determined that we should move on to a more respectable name. Especially now that we have more people becoming aware of the injustices African Americans have endured, the TJ name becomes more and more of a liability. As much as I love all the TJ community, I don’t want to be associated with the name any longer. It has become an embarrassment.
Bernie Novgorodoff – Pro: We are all indebted to Thomas Jefferson for his many valuable contributions to the founding of this nation. Even in his time, he understood the moral turpitude of the enslavement of black men, women and children. Yet, faced with the choice between following his conscience (i.e., freeing his own slaves) and the economic benefits afforded to him by his privileged ownership of enslaved black people, he went with the latter.
In this time of heightened racial injustices, we too are faced with a choice. Do we want to be associated with a person, however great, who chose his privileged position over simple humanity? Or do we want to Stand on the Side of Love?
For me, the choice is simple. I choose to Stand on the Side of Love.
Bernie Novgorodoff
Richard A Brown – Con: I still remain quite proud of our Thomas Jefferson name. Yes, I realize that he profited from owning black slaves, which was not uncommon for wealthier landowners during that period of our history and this is disturbing, but it doesn’t compare to all of his accomplishments and successes in the establishment of our country’s democracy. He authored the Declaration of Independence; passed the statute of Religious Freedom in Virginia in 1786; attempted to ban slavery in all Western territories in 1800, but his bill was defeated in Congress by one vote; founded the University of Virginia, oversaw the successful purchase for 15 million dollars of the Louisiana territories in 1803; and in 1807 he drafted and signed into law a bill banning the importation of slaves into the U.S. writing of his opposition to the principle of slavery. Jefferson was a strong advocate of liberty and protecting the rights of individuals against the state. His concept and defense of liberty played an important role in the development of US democracy.
I live in Jeffersontown in Jefferson County. I enjoy hiking in Jefferson Memorial Forest and eating out in Jeffersonville across the river. The granddaughter of a close friend attends Thomas Jefferson Middle School here in Louisville. I have enjoyed touring the Jefferson Memorial in Washington, DC. There are numerous other physical and geographical sites bearing the name of this historic figure. Should all of these undergo name change consideration?
I think the Jefferson Bible (The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth) is probably far more acceptable by most Unitarian Universalists than The Holy Bible.
I would only be comfortable with changing the name if it included the removal of the “Church” word, as I am a Secular Humanist and think that religion has always been a major cause of our world’s conflicts and problems. If the majority wishes a name change, something like “Truth and Justice Unitarian Universalist Congregation” or “…Community” would even allow us to keep our TJUC designation, and I could still refer to it as “TJ” – which I love.
Rev. Dawn Cooley – Pro: I had an unexpected experience earlier this week as I was downtown protesting for justice for Black lives. When press and participants asked what congregation I was affiliated with, I stammered. I realized that, particularly when advocating, rallying and protesting against police brutality against black people, against the criminalization of their very existence, I could not say that I was with “Thomas Jefferson Unitarian Church”. Instead, I would say I was with the UU church out on Brownsboro Road.
Jefferson Square, the heart of the protests, sits across Jefferson St. from City Hall. The courthouse is across 6th St. and the jail is kitty-corner. Jefferson Square is the seat of power in Louisville. And the name is a reminder of the enslavement and centuries of bondage Black people have experienced. And now there is a petition to rename it Breonna Taylor Square. Because Louisvillians who care about racial justice know that naming is a powerful thing.
I want to be able to proudly proclaim the name of the UU congregation that I am a part of. I don’t want to have to hem and haw or stammer, or describe where we are vs who we are. But I cannot, in this work we are called to do, claim to be a part of Thomas Jefferson Unitarian Church, because the name is a microaggression against every black person who hears it or reads it in the paper.
TJUC has a vision for being a force for justice in Louisville. Changing your name will affirm your understanding that what is the right thing to do is not always what is easy. It will confirm your commitment to racial justice,
With love and hope,
The Rev. Dawn Cooley, TJUC Justice Center Coordinator